Hey David, thanks for this one. What an incredible interview! Fleshman is so amazingly thoughtful, candid, and insightful. I hadn't heard of her before, so I'm really grateful you helped me learn about her story. Since I teach and coach young boys and girls, I found this one to be especially relevant for my life.
Can I ask a weird question about interviewing? Let me know if this doesn't make sense: one thing I've noticed you do here is an example of what I've seen others do both in written and oral interviews (like a podcast). Lauren would repeatedly have amazingly long and rich answers, and my inclination would be to respond to or engage with that answer in some way that probably doesn't read very well on a newsletter ("Wow that was so reflective" or "I can't believe your dad did that" or "Thanks for sharing that really difficult memory). But you (and talented podcasters/interviewers like Derek Thompson I've seen) don't do that at all. Instead you cut through that verbal fluff and jump right to your next question. How are you able to transition that smoothly while still keep the conversation flowing normally? I imagine you have a list of questions, but I also can see that you're good enough at this to avoid the trap of just reciting them one after the next. Did that question make sense? Thanks again.
David, the two sentences in Lauren's reply to you at the end stunned me. You made the right choice to use the first sentence as the title of your post.
"The love from success is always temporary. You have to find satisfaction with yourself on your average day."
In your last question for her, you included the reference to Alain de Botton's writing and how, for many, "great triumph doesn’t fix the deepest problem they’re grappling with."
It sounds like Lauren's self-awareness started to break through with a lap-and-a-half to go at nationals in the 5,000 when she stopped running. "I started again because I hated that voice and it didn’t match my values and I didn’t want to let it win."
That's a story that many of us can relate to.
In my life, there have been many tiny "achievements/triumphs" that I've mistakenly attached to my ego/identity. And most of the time, this helped to reinforce my problematic behavior related to my "deepest problem." It took way too long for me to become more self-aware and start making changes.
Thank you for bringing that part of her story to our attention.
This is not a criticism, I enjoyed reading this interview and Lauren has done the world an incredible service by writing her book and sharing her experiences. That being said, I can't help but feel like I range narrowly despite my best efforts. As I started in on reading the discussion I immediately said - wait, didn't I just read a talk with Lauren on Emily Oster's wonderful parenting substack? Of course it fits in with both writer's field of interest and makes perfect sense, but it reminded me of the dozens of books I've read over the last few years that invariably use the same events to make their points (e.g., the Challenger Disaster, Ernest Shackleton's Trans-Antarctic Expedition). Even doing primarily long-form reading to get ideas and information, I still feel like I sometimes find myself in an information bubble.
Excellent as always. I shared this with my volleyball coaching colleagues because we coach all women and all the themes are mostly left unsaid and not understood.
I appreciated this so much, especially as a father of 5 daughters who wants them to both succeed and to embrace who they are rather then trying to be someone for somebody else. Lauren’s candor about her past trauma is welcome and I’m likely to add the book because of this.
Another great article! Love the title, and is so true. My goals, as you well know now, have changed dramatically. My daily success is any day I can get a chance to run and achieve it. That way I maintain a constant satisfaction.
Fun to hear about Vin Lanana, he was my coach for a while too. There were a couple of workouts that I questioned his parentage. Only in my head!
I hope that many read Lauren's book, as I certainly will. Watched her compete at Stanford and read her blogs back in the day. I think a lot of people will learn about what it means to be a professional athlete (and runner). Which will give context to those Olympics watchers who only see that brief pinnacle of achievement, before returning to their regular schedule. As a fellow runner/competitor, I have some of that context and appreciation.
Such an inspiring read and amazing athlete who's exemplified what
growing with grace and perspective is all about!
Hey David, thanks for this one. What an incredible interview! Fleshman is so amazingly thoughtful, candid, and insightful. I hadn't heard of her before, so I'm really grateful you helped me learn about her story. Since I teach and coach young boys and girls, I found this one to be especially relevant for my life.
Can I ask a weird question about interviewing? Let me know if this doesn't make sense: one thing I've noticed you do here is an example of what I've seen others do both in written and oral interviews (like a podcast). Lauren would repeatedly have amazingly long and rich answers, and my inclination would be to respond to or engage with that answer in some way that probably doesn't read very well on a newsletter ("Wow that was so reflective" or "I can't believe your dad did that" or "Thanks for sharing that really difficult memory). But you (and talented podcasters/interviewers like Derek Thompson I've seen) don't do that at all. Instead you cut through that verbal fluff and jump right to your next question. How are you able to transition that smoothly while still keep the conversation flowing normally? I imagine you have a list of questions, but I also can see that you're good enough at this to avoid the trap of just reciting them one after the next. Did that question make sense? Thanks again.
David, the two sentences in Lauren's reply to you at the end stunned me. You made the right choice to use the first sentence as the title of your post.
"The love from success is always temporary. You have to find satisfaction with yourself on your average day."
In your last question for her, you included the reference to Alain de Botton's writing and how, for many, "great triumph doesn’t fix the deepest problem they’re grappling with."
It sounds like Lauren's self-awareness started to break through with a lap-and-a-half to go at nationals in the 5,000 when she stopped running. "I started again because I hated that voice and it didn’t match my values and I didn’t want to let it win."
That's a story that many of us can relate to.
In my life, there have been many tiny "achievements/triumphs" that I've mistakenly attached to my ego/identity. And most of the time, this helped to reinforce my problematic behavior related to my "deepest problem." It took way too long for me to become more self-aware and start making changes.
Thank you for bringing that part of her story to our attention.
This is not a criticism, I enjoyed reading this interview and Lauren has done the world an incredible service by writing her book and sharing her experiences. That being said, I can't help but feel like I range narrowly despite my best efforts. As I started in on reading the discussion I immediately said - wait, didn't I just read a talk with Lauren on Emily Oster's wonderful parenting substack? Of course it fits in with both writer's field of interest and makes perfect sense, but it reminded me of the dozens of books I've read over the last few years that invariably use the same events to make their points (e.g., the Challenger Disaster, Ernest Shackleton's Trans-Antarctic Expedition). Even doing primarily long-form reading to get ideas and information, I still feel like I sometimes find myself in an information bubble.
Excellent as always. I shared this with my volleyball coaching colleagues because we coach all women and all the themes are mostly left unsaid and not understood.
I appreciated this so much, especially as a father of 5 daughters who wants them to both succeed and to embrace who they are rather then trying to be someone for somebody else. Lauren’s candor about her past trauma is welcome and I’m likely to add the book because of this.
Another great article! Love the title, and is so true. My goals, as you well know now, have changed dramatically. My daily success is any day I can get a chance to run and achieve it. That way I maintain a constant satisfaction.
Fun to hear about Vin Lanana, he was my coach for a while too. There were a couple of workouts that I questioned his parentage. Only in my head!
I hope that many read Lauren's book, as I certainly will. Watched her compete at Stanford and read her blogs back in the day. I think a lot of people will learn about what it means to be a professional athlete (and runner). Which will give context to those Olympics watchers who only see that brief pinnacle of achievement, before returning to their regular schedule. As a fellow runner/competitor, I have some of that context and appreciation.
Thank you Lauren and David!