As a high jumper from the time, no coincidence that the flop arrived shortly after foam pits. I jumped on sawdust, which was common; some jumped into sand. No foam, no flop. Foam opened a door; Fosbury discovered the possible by going through it. (Noting that vaulters got foam before we more earthbound did.)
Plus Debbie Brill in Canada also developed her “Brill Bend” at the same time. Often we see innovations happen concurrently and this is a great example. She still holds the Canadian records.
Thanks for the share as I did not know about Bruce Quande! Unsung heroes all over the place. That would be a great book, and inspiring for many of us who tend to “make things up.” 🤓
I have a strange stubbornness when it comes to trying to finish one book before I move on to another. But it makes sense to pick and choose. That's really cool that you are using kindle and making that work, especially when travelling it's very handy to have your books on the phone/tablet. Great to be able to adapt and make that work for you. Something I will definitely keep in mind for the future! Good to be open to change eh 👍
Thank you Jim. This encourages me to do more short ones. ...Although Q&As will probably remain on the longer side. But I'm glad to have feedback on that as well.
I like your comments about qualities of great coaches. As a former collegiate (hept)athlete, I often struggled with the balance between 1) trusting your coach 110% and not deviating from their instructions 2) independently amassing knowledge about your event as a student of the sport and from that, coming up with your own ideas and solutions that your coach may not agree with. Many coaches disregard input from athletes on technical aspects because they have studied it for so long and their athletes haven't, so I appreciated hearing this aspect of Fosbury's story ... and as a medical student, I appreciated the brevity too ahaha.
Zoe! Judging from your profile picture here, I hope I'm corresponding with a fellow former Heps athlete;)
I completely agree about that challenge, and you put it more clearly than I would have. You reminded me of Stuart McMillan, who has coached a bevy of Olympic sprint medalists, and some bobsled medalists. He has talked to me about this sort of divide (sometimes generational) between coaches who are really good communicators, but don't keep up with the scientific side of the sport, and the coaches who are all up on the latest physiology findings, but are poor communicators. The magic, of course, is when you get a coach who can have some of both, and be a partner in helping the athlete interpret the technical stuff, and in finding personal solutions. That was his take, anyway, if I'm summarizing it reasonably. I think he's a very very smart, but very intellectually humble guy, which probably allows him to know a lot without precluding his athletes from discovering things.
Anyway, thanks so much for leaving this comment, and I'll apologize in advance for my Q&As, which always run long;) Hope med school is going well!
Awesome! I was at the Sun Valley Writers' Conference once, and someone offered to introduce me to Dick, and I eagerly assented. But he was out of town :/
Most of the amazing male aerial moves in ballet were also developed by the dancers themselves, largely extending variant motions, some becoming signature moves.
Figure skating, following the slow development of assurance, and more recently using training aids to increase spinning speed, were developed by individual athletes exceeding the previously presumed bounds of the possible.
The latter has also occurred in artistic gymnastics , also in both sexes (gender is an identification and only rarely are there actual individuals having both primary sexual organs and the more important hormonal variation , while of interest, is not part of this comment) broaching ideas to cohorts and spotters, including coaches.
In such uncoached kinetic sports as surfing, snowboarding, windsurfing aerials, many, many accidental discoveries, (mistakes, with peculiar catlike saves) then further developed in the minds of performers moved those most creative and astonishing developments.
Even climbing, once, consistent daily training opportunities occurred through artificial climbing walls, extremely nonstandard methods were developed ALWAYS by individual climbers, using positions and muscles not seen , unless in children on jungle gyms, advanced the activity far beyond its original limits, although development of sticky rubber had a primary hand in it.
In the case of high jumping, by the way, small gymnasts using approaches called "flip-flops", consecutive handsprings had so overmatched regular running approaches to the bar by the 1930s, that gymnastic approaches, allowing THOSE individuals to clear far over 7 feet to 8 feet, were outlawed in that sport almost immediately.
So Fosbury was extremely lucky NOT to have encountered elder conservatives who always attempt to prevent innovation.
Haha...I'm also a short dude, but was an 800-meter runner in college. Not quite high jump, but I was definitely usually the smallest guy on the line. Glad you enjoyed!
Also a big fan of the short write up, but I think that's just coming from the part of me that is excited about anything that means more posts. I was surprised to see that the Fosbury Flop had such an effect on the height of high jumpers. I guess I'd assumed tall people would already have a big advantage in high jumping, so I'm surprised (and impressed) that Fosbury had such an impact. Always fun to see my intuition be totally off. (By the way, I'm sorry to bring this up again but the idea that innovation often comes from bottom-up experimentation not top-down theory is at the heart of chapters 7 and 11 of Black Box Thinking. I remember you said you don't always read entire books, so if you're pressed for time I'd start with those ones.)
Having said that, one question going back to something you mentioned a few weeks ago. What's your "master thought list"? Something you use to help you write?
I’m with Matt on shorter is great if it means more posts. I can barely get a book open these days but thought provoking stuff like this gets me by and keeps me turning over stones in the ol’ noggin. I like the longer stuff too though.
My goal is to write a follow-up piece about my experiences as a “Fosbury” jumper, my later specialized high jump coaching, and the gift of sitting next to Dick Fosbury’s Oregon coach, Berny Wagner, while observing the jumpers at the Drake Relays in Des Moines, Iowa.
Further, is it possible that these experiences positively impacted my 32 years as an educator, parent, and person? Yes!
I do have a picture that was in the newspaper, and I saw him do it more than once. Not from underneath where the net is but from the left side next to the rim on the back board. World class athletes in track and field are masters of precision. They often win by fractions.
outstanding ! Count me astonished ! I was gifted or grew into astonish vertical jump, & especially with a run up & foot plant .. like jammin a basketball or laying a poster block from behind and well above.. would never dream of such a leap !
Excellent! The flop is awesome! I threw the discus and shot put in high school - using the discus spin for the shot as they do today could have added several feet to my shot put distance. I think the next thing we will see is a mid-air flip in the long jump!
Hey Hall, I like your thinking! In fact, it may be too good...I'm pretty sure the front-flip technique was actually used and banned in long-jump. Not because it didn't work (I think it worked extremely well), but for safety reasons.
I did the "flop" in high school track just a handful of years after Fosbury won his gold medal with the technique, so this really struck home as a brilliant and inspiring story to drive home the value of trying new things, and coaching from the context of trusting individual innovation. ". . .use our influence essentially to underwrite smart risk-taking and experimentation, even within the confines of a well-defined goal." Beautifully said.
As a high jumper from the time, no coincidence that the flop arrived shortly after foam pits. I jumped on sawdust, which was common; some jumped into sand. No foam, no flop. Foam opened a door; Fosbury discovered the possible by going through it. (Noting that vaulters got foam before we more earthbound did.)
Great point, Hart. And a cool example of innovation opening an opportunity for more innovation.
Plus Debbie Brill in Canada also developed her “Brill Bend” at the same time. Often we see innovations happen concurrently and this is a great example. She still holds the Canadian records.
https://bcsportshall.com/curator-corner/debbie-brill-breaking-down-the-brill-bend-womens-history-month-feature/
Absolutely! I'm fascinated by the phenomenon of so-called "multiple discovery," and want to write about it someday. ...I was also glad to hear that Fosbury gave credit to Brill, as well as to Bruce Quande: https://406mtsports.com/olympics/the-first-fosbury/article_98331991-ceb4-5a72-a592-30e8d9c11b53.html
I didn't know anything about Brill before, and now I'm glad she got some well-deserved recognition in recent articles about Fosbury.
Thanks for the share as I did not know about Bruce Quande! Unsung heroes all over the place. That would be a great book, and inspiring for many of us who tend to “make things up.” 🤓
as a western roll guy.. & wannabe Valerie Brummell into sand
I could have sore wrists plus sore left rib cage ..
As I jumped higher, had to adapt re ‘the landing’
At 6’ and over, the landing dictates the left arm is between my ribs
and rather solid sand.. my hands would have shot out earlier
to absorb some of the blow.. and I’m kicking my right leg out over the bar
to get both legs involved to help with the landing
I’m the farm kid who filled seed bags with fresh straw
and learned to jump in our horse paddock where I made a pit
.. but at school it was just sand, grass and the bar
You are my new hero!
Short is great and more fun to read! :)
I appreciate the feedback, Amrit!
I have a strange stubbornness when it comes to trying to finish one book before I move on to another. But it makes sense to pick and choose. That's really cool that you are using kindle and making that work, especially when travelling it's very handy to have your books on the phone/tablet. Great to be able to adapt and make that work for you. Something I will definitely keep in mind for the future! Good to be open to change eh 👍
Not sure where this came from but I enjoyed the SHORT read and information but factual and insightfull. Thank you, David.
Thank you Jim. This encourages me to do more short ones. ...Although Q&As will probably remain on the longer side. But I'm glad to have feedback on that as well.
I like your comments about qualities of great coaches. As a former collegiate (hept)athlete, I often struggled with the balance between 1) trusting your coach 110% and not deviating from their instructions 2) independently amassing knowledge about your event as a student of the sport and from that, coming up with your own ideas and solutions that your coach may not agree with. Many coaches disregard input from athletes on technical aspects because they have studied it for so long and their athletes haven't, so I appreciated hearing this aspect of Fosbury's story ... and as a medical student, I appreciated the brevity too ahaha.
Zoe! Judging from your profile picture here, I hope I'm corresponding with a fellow former Heps athlete;)
I completely agree about that challenge, and you put it more clearly than I would have. You reminded me of Stuart McMillan, who has coached a bevy of Olympic sprint medalists, and some bobsled medalists. He has talked to me about this sort of divide (sometimes generational) between coaches who are really good communicators, but don't keep up with the scientific side of the sport, and the coaches who are all up on the latest physiology findings, but are poor communicators. The magic, of course, is when you get a coach who can have some of both, and be a partner in helping the athlete interpret the technical stuff, and in finding personal solutions. That was his take, anyway, if I'm summarizing it reasonably. I think he's a very very smart, but very intellectually humble guy, which probably allows him to know a lot without precluding his athletes from discovering things.
Anyway, thanks so much for leaving this comment, and I'll apologize in advance for my Q&As, which always run long;) Hope med school is going well!
Dick and Robin were dear friends of Shay and me for many years. We spent a lot of time out in Sun Valley where they have lived.
Awesome! I was at the Sun Valley Writers' Conference once, and someone offered to introduce me to Dick, and I eagerly assented. But he was out of town :/
Most of the amazing male aerial moves in ballet were also developed by the dancers themselves, largely extending variant motions, some becoming signature moves.
Figure skating, following the slow development of assurance, and more recently using training aids to increase spinning speed, were developed by individual athletes exceeding the previously presumed bounds of the possible.
The latter has also occurred in artistic gymnastics , also in both sexes (gender is an identification and only rarely are there actual individuals having both primary sexual organs and the more important hormonal variation , while of interest, is not part of this comment) broaching ideas to cohorts and spotters, including coaches.
In such uncoached kinetic sports as surfing, snowboarding, windsurfing aerials, many, many accidental discoveries, (mistakes, with peculiar catlike saves) then further developed in the minds of performers moved those most creative and astonishing developments.
Even climbing, once, consistent daily training opportunities occurred through artificial climbing walls, extremely nonstandard methods were developed ALWAYS by individual climbers, using positions and muscles not seen , unless in children on jungle gyms, advanced the activity far beyond its original limits, although development of sticky rubber had a primary hand in it.
In the case of high jumping, by the way, small gymnasts using approaches called "flip-flops", consecutive handsprings had so overmatched regular running approaches to the bar by the 1930s, that gymnastic approaches, allowing THOSE individuals to clear far over 7 feet to 8 feet, were outlawed in that sport almost immediately.
So Fosbury was extremely lucky NOT to have encountered elder conservatives who always attempt to prevent innovation.
Congrats on getting anything out! I know how hard it is!
Very kind of you, Kevin. Thank you!
As a former high school high jumper (and a short dude), thoroughly enjoyed this article.
Haha...I'm also a short dude, but was an 800-meter runner in college. Not quite high jump, but I was definitely usually the smallest guy on the line. Glad you enjoyed!
Also a big fan of the short write up, but I think that's just coming from the part of me that is excited about anything that means more posts. I was surprised to see that the Fosbury Flop had such an effect on the height of high jumpers. I guess I'd assumed tall people would already have a big advantage in high jumping, so I'm surprised (and impressed) that Fosbury had such an impact. Always fun to see my intuition be totally off. (By the way, I'm sorry to bring this up again but the idea that innovation often comes from bottom-up experimentation not top-down theory is at the heart of chapters 7 and 11 of Black Box Thinking. I remember you said you don't always read entire books, so if you're pressed for time I'd start with those ones.)
Having said that, one question going back to something you mentioned a few weeks ago. What's your "master thought list"? Something you use to help you write?
I got the ebook since you mentioned it, but I definitely appreciate the specific chapters!
Back soon on the master thought list...
I’m with Matt on shorter is great if it means more posts. I can barely get a book open these days but thought provoking stuff like this gets me by and keeps me turning over stones in the ol’ noggin. I like the longer stuff too though.
I appreciate that Katie! ...And if you do open a book, don't feel like you have to finish it. I happily read parts of books constantly.
Thanks for the reminder. And implicit encouragement.
Really nice David.
Thank you George. Especially meaningful to hear that from you.
Congratulations!
Keep on keepin’ on!
Thank you for honoring Dick Fosbury.
My goal is to write a follow-up piece about my experiences as a “Fosbury” jumper, my later specialized high jump coaching, and the gift of sitting next to Dick Fosbury’s Oregon coach, Berny Wagner, while observing the jumpers at the Drake Relays in Des Moines, Iowa.
Further, is it possible that these experiences positively impacted my 32 years as an educator, parent, and person? Yes!
And thank you for the nudge!
I look forward to more!
Jean_nelson@sbcglobal.net (note that I have no posts….yet!)
Wow that must've been such a neat experience at Drake! Thanks so much for sharing that, Jean, and happy writing!
My college boyfriend at University of Maryland was a world class high jumper prior to the Fosbury Flop. He could hit a basketball rim with his foot.
That is amazing! I saw that done once, and not only the hops, but also the flexibility...
Have NEVER heard of anyone touching a basketball rim with their foot in my entire life !
Would SLAY to see this validated ! I see serious ‘mechanical issues’ involved, such as the mesh below the hoop
not to mention the bottom of the backboard awareness .. any serious leaper had to account for that - after the slam !
I do have a picture that was in the newspaper, and I saw him do it more than once. Not from underneath where the net is but from the left side next to the rim on the back board. World class athletes in track and field are masters of precision. They often win by fractions.
outstanding ! Count me astonished ! I was gifted or grew into astonish vertical jump, & especially with a run up & foot plant .. like jammin a basketball or laying a poster block from behind and well above.. would never dream of such a leap !
It’s a good thing they called it the Fosbury flop and not the Dick flop.
Ya know, I've spent a lot of timing thinking about track and field, and yet that thought had never occurred to me.
Glad to be of service.
This newsletter is all about getting people to think new thoughts, and that includes me;)
Excellent! The flop is awesome! I threw the discus and shot put in high school - using the discus spin for the shot as they do today could have added several feet to my shot put distance. I think the next thing we will see is a mid-air flip in the long jump!
Hey Hall, I like your thinking! In fact, it may be too good...I'm pretty sure the front-flip technique was actually used and banned in long-jump. Not because it didn't work (I think it worked extremely well), but for safety reasons.
I did the "flop" in high school track just a handful of years after Fosbury won his gold medal with the technique, so this really struck home as a brilliant and inspiring story to drive home the value of trying new things, and coaching from the context of trusting individual innovation. ". . .use our influence essentially to underwrite smart risk-taking and experimentation, even within the confines of a well-defined goal." Beautifully said.
Hey Rick, that's really neat to hear. Was it ubiquitous in high school by the time you were using it?
Thanks for reading and sharing, and I appreciate the kind words.
Pretty much. That would have been '76, '77, '78 - and that's how most were jumping by then with the odd individual still doing the roll.