I assumed others did this, but I haven't actually known for sure. I keep my notes in Google Keep, and I usually find myself adding content to my notes while reading something else (a book, or an article usually). It's typically only when I'm adding content that I read previous content in my notes, and I'm honestly amazed at some of the thoughts I've had on particular topics. What I've learned is that I have to write down a well-formed thought when I have it because I may not be in the right frame of mind to see it clearly again for a long while (if ever).
David, that resonates so much. I've realized I have to put down certain thoughts at the moment too, or they'll be gone. That's often about a new frame for some idea I'm grappling with that I want to write about. That's all to say that this REALLY resonated. And I hadn't heard of Google Keep!
Oh my gosh! This was even better than I could've imagined thank you so much, David!! I really love this idea, and it's so interesting to hear that it's a common thing amongst other writers. I've actually started doing something sort of similar recently where I just walk around with a pen and a stack of post its in my pocket. Whenever something interesting happens that I want to think/journal more about later, I'll write it down. My friends have rightfully started to make fun of me for it because I've even taken to writing things down in different colors depending on what category of thought/idea they are. I like it, though, because I feel like I can't remember much in any given moment, but when I write things down, I am the sum of my past selves. Or maybe I'm just nerdy.
Either way, this is all to say that this was very validating to read, and I really appreciate you keeping up your end of the bargain. I liked Ingalls' idea that inspiration should come from other sources besides just reading. I'm curious, have you noticed where your inspiration tends to come from? I imagine it might be different for a fiction writer like Ingalls, but are there any places/outlets/activities/writers that reliably leave you with things to add to your master thought list? And thanks again for doing this. This really made my week :)
Post its and a four-color pen are invaluable to me. My friends also think I’m a bit wacky for all the collection and categorization of my ideas. Though my husband told me this weekend that he found my spreadsheet of “Sarah’s Favorite Films” intriguing and endearing. Great words of affirmation 🤗
Wow that is the exact same pen I use too! Somewhere Tobias Funke is screaming about how there are dozens of us. I'm intrigued... I'll have to start keeping a similar list!
I also had a four-color pen phase!! haha...there actually are dozens of us! I'm not currently using that four-color beauty, but I use different colors in highlighting pdfs, and ebooks, and I have a giant stack of the little colored post-it flags that go in books, and my own notebooks. So I'm still doing some color coordinating.
Interesting, Matt and Sarah, that your friends both rib you a little. I propose they're secretly slightly envious of all your ideas;)
Matt, at the risk of ending up in another contract with you, I'm going to think about that inspiration question and get back to you. I honestly don't have a sort of top source that comes to mind right away. I remember chatting with Guy Raz about this, and it turned out we were both reading the New York Review of Books and The London Review of Books regularly, and mining them for ideas. I would take tons of notes on those, especially NYRB, but actually a lot of it didn't have much staying power for me. I'm going to think more on this one. One person who just came to mind as someone whose perspective always gets me thinking: Phil Tetlock.
Ha! I'll stick with that reframe and smile next time my friends give me a hard time. Love that about Phil Tetlock. My main exposure to him is through reading about him in your book and others, so I'll have to start actually mining through his papers.
And yes, please do not feel any pressure to suggest another contract. You're too true to your word to rush into something.
I suspect that us less organized folk are a silent majority around here. Happy to own it though, and I have lots of thoughts about it. Mostly boils down to a reminder to appreciate that this crazy world is full of so many different people with so many different ways to accomplish so many different kinds of cool things.
Man you guys are way more organized than I am. I have a complete scattershot list that when I remember to read back through it, I always enjoy, but with no organization whatsoever. Usually I feel like this John Irving quote, “and our dreams escape is almost as vividly as we can imagine them.”
Katie, I assure everybody here is still losing a lot of their ideas. The fact that you have something, anything, that you look back at from time to time is great. None of us will ever capture (and certainly not capture and revisit), all the great stuff we think or come across, so I think just doing anything at all probably gets a lot of the benefit.
I just read through a bunch of comments from organized people and was starting to feel particularly discombobulated and then saw your comment. I feel much better now, I'm not alone.
The great thing about daunting stuff like this is that being even a little more thoughtful can make a huge difference. But I'm all about dropping the idea that we can get to perfect. Easier said than done, but I'm improving at it;)
I really enjoyed this article! I love hearing about common processes that great writers share.
I recently read a book by Sönke Ahrens called “How to Take Smart Notes” that lays out a similar process (slip box) step by step. I found it helpful for thinking about how to effectively organize and use this kind of system.
You might also be interested in the work of Tiago Forte and his Building a Second Brain methodology.
Essentially, he argues for setting up a method to capture anything that you come across that resonates or surprises you and then using them as what he calls intermediate packets.
Think of these as Lego blocks that can contribute towards moving forward a project your working on.
Thanks for the advice! I haven’t come across this one, so I’ll have to pick up a copy.
I’ve heard the phrase “second brain,” but I don’t know if it was while reading Ahrens, David Allen’s Getting Things Done (also highly recommend—more a planning than a thinking system, but I use it every day), or something else. I’ll be interested to see the idea fully developed in this book, though.
It is possible you've come across the term 'Second Brain' in a number of places. It has become an interchangeable term for basically any form of personal knowledge management.
The thing I do like about his approach is that it can be very light weight. What I mean is you can just dump thoughts, screenshots, articles etc into a app like Evernote or Apple notes and resurface them to reflect on them in a spare moment or put them to use as the need arises.
This is as opposed to something like Zettlekasten that imo requires a heavy lift to develop each note.
I recently started a PowerPoint presentation with avid Range Widely reader Matt Thomas himself, where we share our notes, thoughts, and favorite quotes about each book we read. I’ve found this is a great way to not only compile my own thoughts and inspirations, but also to learn from Matt’s! Because of our different interests, we’ve also motivated each other to read books that are outside of our usual genres.
Would highly recommend the asynchronous book club! I’m still trying to write a review as great as Twain’s on W&P, but alas...
In the meantime, Nellie recommended Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi which was every bit as amazing as she described. It’s historical fiction that tells the story of how generations of two branches of one family tree are impacted by slavery (similar to Haley’s Roots). It was downright fascinating to read a book told over such a time horizon. This book made me think about inter-generational consequences in a way I never had before, and now I’m trying to read more of the historical fiction that Nellie recommends (it’s such a great way to learn!)
Great question! I’m currently reading Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman. Matt described it as a “balm for the soul,” and I couldn’t say no to that. It’s certainly proving to be thought provoking! And I think Matt will have to chime in for his book…
I took an online course with Oliver recently. So. Good. There was plenty of stuff I knew, but even that I felt fell under the "simple but not easy" category of things, where I need reminders, and new and helpful frames and examples.
I found it amusing that in an article about how to write dialogue, Mamet concludes with a caution to the effect that it can't be taught. Of course many point out that Mamet's dialogue isn't anything like real conversation. It seems like he agrees based on his comments. In any case it is apparent that Rachell Ingalls understood how to write dialogue.
With writers, including great and unique ones, I ALWAYS want to hear their thoughts about their craft, but I also make sure to throw it into a large stew of ideas that might power my own exploration, but are still subservient to it in the end.
I just finished Gretchen Rubin's "Life in Five Senses" last night (great book, highly recommend!) and she created something similar for aphorisms that she creates on the fly. Except that she writes them in various colors and adds them to her old-fashioned Rolodex and calls it her Muse Machine.
Now you've written about this and so I definitely take this as a sign from the Universe that I need to get cracking and create a repository of my own...
Muse Machine...I love that! Thanks for sharing it Heather, and had I know about it, I definitely would've included it. And I hope this sign from the Universe serves you well;)
My challenge is being more organised. I’m capturing ideas and stories in lots of places and it’s somewhat frustrating. That said, my main places for keeping ideas and stories are index cards, and Pocket for online articles and web pages. When I’m on the move I keep it simple with the iPhone notes app. I do want to get more organised...I’m finding this conversation to be extremely helpful.
I feel your pain Chris. I've tried all kinds of things to be more organised with my notes. But I'll disengage as soon as there's any level of complexity to it. So for now, I just have an ongoing Google Keep file where I dump everything. Great for the ease of use, not great for revisiting a particular insight. Oh, and a pocket note book for mental rambling.
I think we all share this challenge. I also use google keep for most things. But since I started to see it as a possibility of a "second brain", I improved its use. In addition to better planning and defining tags, I also always use the title of the note to associate keywords that might be helpful in research. Since then, I've never had trouble finding what I need! And if you feel the need to wander between specific notes in a category, I can always use tags to navigate! Though the levels for this are different for categories/tags. For example, I have the "written" tag where I record any idea that comes to mind from fictional texts. And also the "quotes" tag with general quotes. I understand that they are distinct categories because one is clearly classifiable and practical, while the other has a more creative and free nature. But when I register a citation I can always include several keywords associated with it both in the title and in the description and when navigating between them I am free to use the various terms applied!
Are you familiar with the Slip Box method for organizing notes? I am reading about it in How To Take Smart Notes by Sonke Ahrens. The method itself is quite cumbersome if you did it with cards, which is the starting point, but there are numerous electronic versions out there. The key is the referencing and tagging system. I am still figuring it out. In German it is called Zettelkasten. There is a site on the method by zettelkasten.danielluedecke.de.
Hey Pete, I have the Ahrens book, but I admit I have not opened it. The comments here will inspire me to do so! I am familiar with the Zettelkasten method, and it reminds me of how author Ryan Holiday does his work — he's really disciplined about it. (I saw his office where he was organizing cards, and accidentally knocked over a stack! I was horrified, but fortunately they stayed in order.) I've also tried Roam Research, for networked notes, but ultimately reverted back to my simpler system, where I seed things with words I'd search for. And speaking of Zettelkasten, I remember on the site where I was reading about it, there was info about the "collector's fallacy" — in which collecting info becomes an end unto itself, but you aren't working with it and so not really assimilating any of it. Interesting idea, and a good cautionary note, I think. That said, sometimes I'm quite conscious of bookmarking or just collecting something, realizing I'll probably never assimilate it, but just the fact of having saved it allows me to let it go and move on. Some sort of weird info hoarding instinct I grapple with, I guess.
That collector's fallcy is pretty much my mode now. This is why I was intrigued with this idea. I am approaching it with my own simple system in mind. It has helped my notetaking in terms of structure and organization, but my method works with the way my brain works. I am trying to open my mind though.
It's a good idea, especially as inspiration can strike you at the most inconvenient times. I tend to use gmail as my "bag of ideas", as I kept a draft email where I jot down ideas when they come to me. It's easy to access, especially as I usually have my phone or laptop nearby, and since its stored on Google's servers, it is accessible from any device where I've set up my Google account. You could probably do something similar with Google Docs or other cloud apps; I just find gmail the most convenient for me.
Alastair, that's a great idea. A good medium between doing nothing, and a method like zettelkasten, which is wonderful in theory, but I doubt could actually fit into most peoples' lives.
Thanks David, I enjoy reading your substack a lot. I used the 4x5 spiral bound notebooks to record
ideas, insights, quotes and inspirations. They're portable & usable in the car, ia store or visiting a
friend. Then I read How to Take Smart Notes by Sonke Ahrens. Then, I switched to 3x5 cards which go inside the wood box I use to store the ideas. It can be a 6"x10" recipe box with four wood slots inside for major subjects. It came with a packet of subject dividers - stay organized like your own brain is interconnected. One idea, one quote per card. And like you talked about David, similar ideas are placed next to each other. Ahrens book is loaded with other suggestions & insights about using the brain dump box for writing projects big or small.
I actually have Ahrens's book, but haven't opened it, and forgot I had it. It has come up so many times in this comment section, that I'm definitely inspired to open it now! Thanks so much for sharing this. I really enjoy hearing the specifics of other peoples' systems.
Great idea, love this post. I have a similar sort of thing between my small 3x5 notebook that goes everywhere with me in my sling bag and a digital version in Logseq (https://logseq.com). Hard to beat the immediacy of pen and paper but the electronic versions make searching much easier. The bi-directional linking in apps like Logseq and some of the crop of new Personal Knowledge Management apps makes the slip box or Zettlekasten technique pretty easy to implement too.
Hey Josh, thanks so much for sharing this! I hadn't heard of Logseq, but from a quick glance, I'm definitely interested to learn more. I have used Roam Research for networked notes, although ultimately I returned to my simpler system that centers on a doc, but also has satellites orbiting it (like many annotated pdfs), and that are made usable thanks to various search functions.
I quite like it. All based on Markdown under the hood which makes all your data quite portable as well. $5/month gets you sync across devices which is much cheaper than Roam too.
Lately I try to write with my internet disconnected, so I can only search through my own local notes, usually collected in something like a "Second Brain" method.
And it acts as a filter because anything I didn't write down clearly failed the important-enough-test!
I love that, Jono. (Although I don't know the "second brain" method. Can you recommend some explanatory reading or video?) I've increasingly trusted my instincts when doing interviews, in the sense that I think I'll remember the really salient stuff, and don't have to transcribe every word like I used to. ...Sometimes. I still transcribe every word in some cases, but at least I've improved somewhat on the important-enough-test strategy.
The source is a great book from Tiago Forte called "Building a Second Brain" - the big idea that stuck with me was this one:
"Think of yourself not just as a taker of notes, but as a giver of notes - you are giving your future self the gift of knowledge that is easy to find and understand."
Well, I'm usually recording them, if allowed, so I have backup if needed. ...that quote is so great! That's a perfect crystallization of some of what I learned, and am still working on, with my notes systems.
Always nice to geek out about a writer's workflow ^^
Another common term for these notebooks to collect quotes, ideas, lyrics etc is "Commonplace Book". Ryan Holiday wrote a popular article about why to keep one a few years back. I have one in the form of a physical notebook that I sporadically fill with lines from books or quotes from articles etc.
Felix, thanks so much for this! I didn't know that term, "commonplace book," but having been in Ryan's office, I've seen his card catalog system for keeping track of thoughts and the ideas to which they're related. I was very impressed!
Honestly I'd love to see it in real time, as opposed to just going through the office. He's amazing. ...When I was looking around, I actually accidentally knocked over a stack of notecards and wanted to crawl in a hole and hide. Fortunately, they stayed in order.
I did like this before but didn't work for me then I had to start from scratch and wrote quotes and ideas I like on notecards and put them in boxes. That way I can flip through them and make connections between them. With notebook it's really hard.
I think the big challenge is to reread, or revisit your notes. I write my notes everywhere on post-it, notebook, iPad, in my phone and then i have a hard time to find the one i need ! But this chaos seems to work anyway. Lately i have been trying to reread them every week, and classified them into project instead of subject. To do some improbable connections. Will see if it works ;)
Johanne, that is an excellent point. My master thought list has actually ballooned so much that I've forgotten a lot of what's there, and this very week I'm making it my main work priority to just read it over systematically, otherwise it just grows out of control and I don't stop to mine it enough. I've never take a designated work time to read it, so should be an interesting experiment!
Ever since I read this article, I’ve been keeping a list of idea sparks on my phone. Now that I’m paying attention, I’m amazed at how many ideas pop into my brain that I would have otherwise lost!
I assumed others did this, but I haven't actually known for sure. I keep my notes in Google Keep, and I usually find myself adding content to my notes while reading something else (a book, or an article usually). It's typically only when I'm adding content that I read previous content in my notes, and I'm honestly amazed at some of the thoughts I've had on particular topics. What I've learned is that I have to write down a well-formed thought when I have it because I may not be in the right frame of mind to see it clearly again for a long while (if ever).
David, that resonates so much. I've realized I have to put down certain thoughts at the moment too, or they'll be gone. That's often about a new frame for some idea I'm grappling with that I want to write about. That's all to say that this REALLY resonated. And I hadn't heard of Google Keep!
Love Google Keep!
Thanks to you I just learned about Google Keep - very useful!
Oh my gosh! This was even better than I could've imagined thank you so much, David!! I really love this idea, and it's so interesting to hear that it's a common thing amongst other writers. I've actually started doing something sort of similar recently where I just walk around with a pen and a stack of post its in my pocket. Whenever something interesting happens that I want to think/journal more about later, I'll write it down. My friends have rightfully started to make fun of me for it because I've even taken to writing things down in different colors depending on what category of thought/idea they are. I like it, though, because I feel like I can't remember much in any given moment, but when I write things down, I am the sum of my past selves. Or maybe I'm just nerdy.
Either way, this is all to say that this was very validating to read, and I really appreciate you keeping up your end of the bargain. I liked Ingalls' idea that inspiration should come from other sources besides just reading. I'm curious, have you noticed where your inspiration tends to come from? I imagine it might be different for a fiction writer like Ingalls, but are there any places/outlets/activities/writers that reliably leave you with things to add to your master thought list? And thanks again for doing this. This really made my week :)
Post its and a four-color pen are invaluable to me. My friends also think I’m a bit wacky for all the collection and categorization of my ideas. Though my husband told me this weekend that he found my spreadsheet of “Sarah’s Favorite Films” intriguing and endearing. Great words of affirmation 🤗
Wow that is the exact same pen I use too! Somewhere Tobias Funke is screaming about how there are dozens of us. I'm intrigued... I'll have to start keeping a similar list!
I also had a four-color pen phase!! haha...there actually are dozens of us! I'm not currently using that four-color beauty, but I use different colors in highlighting pdfs, and ebooks, and I have a giant stack of the little colored post-it flags that go in books, and my own notebooks. So I'm still doing some color coordinating.
Interesting, Matt and Sarah, that your friends both rib you a little. I propose they're secretly slightly envious of all your ideas;)
Matt, at the risk of ending up in another contract with you, I'm going to think about that inspiration question and get back to you. I honestly don't have a sort of top source that comes to mind right away. I remember chatting with Guy Raz about this, and it turned out we were both reading the New York Review of Books and The London Review of Books regularly, and mining them for ideas. I would take tons of notes on those, especially NYRB, but actually a lot of it didn't have much staying power for me. I'm going to think more on this one. One person who just came to mind as someone whose perspective always gets me thinking: Phil Tetlock.
Ha! I'll stick with that reframe and smile next time my friends give me a hard time. Love that about Phil Tetlock. My main exposure to him is through reading about him in your book and others, so I'll have to start actually mining through his papers.
And yes, please do not feel any pressure to suggest another contract. You're too true to your word to rush into something.
I suspect that us less organized folk are a silent majority around here. Happy to own it though, and I have lots of thoughts about it. Mostly boils down to a reminder to appreciate that this crazy world is full of so many different people with so many different ways to accomplish so many different kinds of cool things.
Man you guys are way more organized than I am. I have a complete scattershot list that when I remember to read back through it, I always enjoy, but with no organization whatsoever. Usually I feel like this John Irving quote, “and our dreams escape is almost as vividly as we can imagine them.”
Katie, I assure everybody here is still losing a lot of their ideas. The fact that you have something, anything, that you look back at from time to time is great. None of us will ever capture (and certainly not capture and revisit), all the great stuff we think or come across, so I think just doing anything at all probably gets a lot of the benefit.
I just read through a bunch of comments from organized people and was starting to feel particularly discombobulated and then saw your comment. I feel much better now, I'm not alone.
The great thing about daunting stuff like this is that being even a little more thoughtful can make a huge difference. But I'm all about dropping the idea that we can get to perfect. Easier said than done, but I'm improving at it;)
Yes - that's the target. One step at a time is good as long as it's in the right direction
Jean cutoffs for all of us! 😂
Ok I'm in for jorts if you two are. I'll clip the four-color pens to the belt loops. It'll be awesome;)
I really enjoyed this article! I love hearing about common processes that great writers share.
I recently read a book by Sönke Ahrens called “How to Take Smart Notes” that lays out a similar process (slip box) step by step. I found it helpful for thinking about how to effectively organize and use this kind of system.
Tyler, I have that book, but haven't cracked it open yet! You've motivated me to grab it off my shelf right now.
You might also be interested in the work of Tiago Forte and his Building a Second Brain methodology.
Essentially, he argues for setting up a method to capture anything that you come across that resonates or surprises you and then using them as what he calls intermediate packets.
Think of these as Lego blocks that can contribute towards moving forward a project your working on.
Thanks for the advice! I haven’t come across this one, so I’ll have to pick up a copy.
I’ve heard the phrase “second brain,” but I don’t know if it was while reading Ahrens, David Allen’s Getting Things Done (also highly recommend—more a planning than a thinking system, but I use it every day), or something else. I’ll be interested to see the idea fully developed in this book, though.
It is possible you've come across the term 'Second Brain' in a number of places. It has become an interchangeable term for basically any form of personal knowledge management.
The thing I do like about his approach is that it can be very light weight. What I mean is you can just dump thoughts, screenshots, articles etc into a app like Evernote or Apple notes and resurface them to reflect on them in a spare moment or put them to use as the need arises.
This is as opposed to something like Zettlekasten that imo requires a heavy lift to develop each note.
I recently started a PowerPoint presentation with avid Range Widely reader Matt Thomas himself, where we share our notes, thoughts, and favorite quotes about each book we read. I’ve found this is a great way to not only compile my own thoughts and inspirations, but also to learn from Matt’s! Because of our different interests, we’ve also motivated each other to read books that are outside of our usual genres.
Shoot, that's really cool. Asynchronous book club! What's a book that each of you has read that the other would never have picked up?
Would highly recommend the asynchronous book club! I’m still trying to write a review as great as Twain’s on W&P, but alas...
In the meantime, Nellie recommended Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi which was every bit as amazing as she described. It’s historical fiction that tells the story of how generations of two branches of one family tree are impacted by slavery (similar to Haley’s Roots). It was downright fascinating to read a book told over such a time horizon. This book made me think about inter-generational consequences in a way I never had before, and now I’m trying to read more of the historical fiction that Nellie recommends (it’s such a great way to learn!)
Great question! I’m currently reading Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman. Matt described it as a “balm for the soul,” and I couldn’t say no to that. It’s certainly proving to be thought provoking! And I think Matt will have to chime in for his book…
I took an online course with Oliver recently. So. Good. There was plenty of stuff I knew, but even that I felt fell under the "simple but not easy" category of things, where I need reminders, and new and helpful frames and examples.
David Mamet on writing dialogue: "'Some people have that gift, some people don't,' says Mamet, which stops him from being too didactic about process."
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/david-mamets-top-9-tips-for-writing-dialogue
Wow, I love the frankness. Actually, I enjoyed this entire list. Thanks so much for sharing that, Jim.
I found it amusing that in an article about how to write dialogue, Mamet concludes with a caution to the effect that it can't be taught. Of course many point out that Mamet's dialogue isn't anything like real conversation. It seems like he agrees based on his comments. In any case it is apparent that Rachell Ingalls understood how to write dialogue.
With writers, including great and unique ones, I ALWAYS want to hear their thoughts about their craft, but I also make sure to throw it into a large stew of ideas that might power my own exploration, but are still subservient to it in the end.
I just finished Gretchen Rubin's "Life in Five Senses" last night (great book, highly recommend!) and she created something similar for aphorisms that she creates on the fly. Except that she writes them in various colors and adds them to her old-fashioned Rolodex and calls it her Muse Machine.
Now you've written about this and so I definitely take this as a sign from the Universe that I need to get cracking and create a repository of my own...
Muse Machine...I love that! Thanks for sharing it Heather, and had I know about it, I definitely would've included it. And I hope this sign from the Universe serves you well;)
My challenge is being more organised. I’m capturing ideas and stories in lots of places and it’s somewhat frustrating. That said, my main places for keeping ideas and stories are index cards, and Pocket for online articles and web pages. When I’m on the move I keep it simple with the iPhone notes app. I do want to get more organised...I’m finding this conversation to be extremely helpful.
I feel your pain Chris. I've tried all kinds of things to be more organised with my notes. But I'll disengage as soon as there's any level of complexity to it. So for now, I just have an ongoing Google Keep file where I dump everything. Great for the ease of use, not great for revisiting a particular insight. Oh, and a pocket note book for mental rambling.
I think we all share this challenge. I also use google keep for most things. But since I started to see it as a possibility of a "second brain", I improved its use. In addition to better planning and defining tags, I also always use the title of the note to associate keywords that might be helpful in research. Since then, I've never had trouble finding what I need! And if you feel the need to wander between specific notes in a category, I can always use tags to navigate! Though the levels for this are different for categories/tags. For example, I have the "written" tag where I record any idea that comes to mind from fictional texts. And also the "quotes" tag with general quotes. I understand that they are distinct categories because one is clearly classifiable and practical, while the other has a more creative and free nature. But when I register a citation I can always include several keywords associated with it both in the title and in the description and when navigating between them I am free to use the various terms applied!
Are you familiar with the Slip Box method for organizing notes? I am reading about it in How To Take Smart Notes by Sonke Ahrens. The method itself is quite cumbersome if you did it with cards, which is the starting point, but there are numerous electronic versions out there. The key is the referencing and tagging system. I am still figuring it out. In German it is called Zettelkasten. There is a site on the method by zettelkasten.danielluedecke.de.
Hey Pete, I have the Ahrens book, but I admit I have not opened it. The comments here will inspire me to do so! I am familiar with the Zettelkasten method, and it reminds me of how author Ryan Holiday does his work — he's really disciplined about it. (I saw his office where he was organizing cards, and accidentally knocked over a stack! I was horrified, but fortunately they stayed in order.) I've also tried Roam Research, for networked notes, but ultimately reverted back to my simpler system, where I seed things with words I'd search for. And speaking of Zettelkasten, I remember on the site where I was reading about it, there was info about the "collector's fallacy" — in which collecting info becomes an end unto itself, but you aren't working with it and so not really assimilating any of it. Interesting idea, and a good cautionary note, I think. That said, sometimes I'm quite conscious of bookmarking or just collecting something, realizing I'll probably never assimilate it, but just the fact of having saved it allows me to let it go and move on. Some sort of weird info hoarding instinct I grapple with, I guess.
That collector's fallcy is pretty much my mode now. This is why I was intrigued with this idea. I am approaching it with my own simple system in mind. It has helped my notetaking in terms of structure and organization, but my method works with the way my brain works. I am trying to open my mind though.
It's a good idea, especially as inspiration can strike you at the most inconvenient times. I tend to use gmail as my "bag of ideas", as I kept a draft email where I jot down ideas when they come to me. It's easy to access, especially as I usually have my phone or laptop nearby, and since its stored on Google's servers, it is accessible from any device where I've set up my Google account. You could probably do something similar with Google Docs or other cloud apps; I just find gmail the most convenient for me.
Alastair, that's a great idea. A good medium between doing nothing, and a method like zettelkasten, which is wonderful in theory, but I doubt could actually fit into most peoples' lives.
Thanks David, I enjoy reading your substack a lot. I used the 4x5 spiral bound notebooks to record
ideas, insights, quotes and inspirations. They're portable & usable in the car, ia store or visiting a
friend. Then I read How to Take Smart Notes by Sonke Ahrens. Then, I switched to 3x5 cards which go inside the wood box I use to store the ideas. It can be a 6"x10" recipe box with four wood slots inside for major subjects. It came with a packet of subject dividers - stay organized like your own brain is interconnected. One idea, one quote per card. And like you talked about David, similar ideas are placed next to each other. Ahrens book is loaded with other suggestions & insights about using the brain dump box for writing projects big or small.
I actually have Ahrens's book, but haven't opened it, and forgot I had it. It has come up so many times in this comment section, that I'm definitely inspired to open it now! Thanks so much for sharing this. I really enjoy hearing the specifics of other peoples' systems.
Great idea, love this post. I have a similar sort of thing between my small 3x5 notebook that goes everywhere with me in my sling bag and a digital version in Logseq (https://logseq.com). Hard to beat the immediacy of pen and paper but the electronic versions make searching much easier. The bi-directional linking in apps like Logseq and some of the crop of new Personal Knowledge Management apps makes the slip box or Zettlekasten technique pretty easy to implement too.
Thanks for sharing!
Hey Josh, thanks so much for sharing this! I hadn't heard of Logseq, but from a quick glance, I'm definitely interested to learn more. I have used Roam Research for networked notes, although ultimately I returned to my simpler system that centers on a doc, but also has satellites orbiting it (like many annotated pdfs), and that are made usable thanks to various search functions.
I quite like it. All based on Markdown under the hood which makes all your data quite portable as well. $5/month gets you sync across devices which is much cheaper than Roam too.
I love the idea of a "spark file" - terrific!
Lately I try to write with my internet disconnected, so I can only search through my own local notes, usually collected in something like a "Second Brain" method.
And it acts as a filter because anything I didn't write down clearly failed the important-enough-test!
I love that, Jono. (Although I don't know the "second brain" method. Can you recommend some explanatory reading or video?) I've increasingly trusted my instincts when doing interviews, in the sense that I think I'll remember the really salient stuff, and don't have to transcribe every word like I used to. ...Sometimes. I still transcribe every word in some cases, but at least I've improved somewhat on the important-enough-test strategy.
I'm impressed that your brain remembers the salient parts from interviews!
Even for important meetings I have to write down the key points discussed because my brain tends to wander afterwards.
Here's my favorite video on the subject of organizing digital notes:
The Second Brain - A Life-Changing Productivity System | Ali Abdaal
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_44XEVOwek)
The source is a great book from Tiago Forte called "Building a Second Brain" - the big idea that stuck with me was this one:
"Think of yourself not just as a taker of notes, but as a giver of notes - you are giving your future self the gift of knowledge that is easy to find and understand."
Well, I'm usually recording them, if allowed, so I have backup if needed. ...that quote is so great! That's a perfect crystallization of some of what I learned, and am still working on, with my notes systems.
Always nice to geek out about a writer's workflow ^^
Another common term for these notebooks to collect quotes, ideas, lyrics etc is "Commonplace Book". Ryan Holiday wrote a popular article about why to keep one a few years back. I have one in the form of a physical notebook that I sporadically fill with lines from books or quotes from articles etc.
Felix, thanks so much for this! I didn't know that term, "commonplace book," but having been in Ryan's office, I've seen his card catalog system for keeping track of thoughts and the ideas to which they're related. I was very impressed!
Always happy to spread the word about this wonderful practice.
Here is the link to the article I mentioned, in case anybody wants to check it out:
https://ryanholiday.net/how-and-why-to-keep-a-commonplace-book/
I have read it. It's wonderful
I'd give a lot to spend some time with Ryan. In fact, I'd love just to watch him work with these note cards 😄
Honestly I'd love to see it in real time, as opposed to just going through the office. He's amazing. ...When I was looking around, I actually accidentally knocked over a stack of notecards and wanted to crawl in a hole and hide. Fortunately, they stayed in order.
I did like this before but didn't work for me then I had to start from scratch and wrote quotes and ideas I like on notecards and put them in boxes. That way I can flip through them and make connections between them. With notebook it's really hard.
I started a solo Whatsapp group when I was on campus. It's the virtual bag where I throw my ideas
I think the big challenge is to reread, or revisit your notes. I write my notes everywhere on post-it, notebook, iPad, in my phone and then i have a hard time to find the one i need ! But this chaos seems to work anyway. Lately i have been trying to reread them every week, and classified them into project instead of subject. To do some improbable connections. Will see if it works ;)
Johanne, that is an excellent point. My master thought list has actually ballooned so much that I've forgotten a lot of what's there, and this very week I'm making it my main work priority to just read it over systematically, otherwise it just grows out of control and I don't stop to mine it enough. I've never take a designated work time to read it, so should be an interesting experiment!
Ever since I read this article, I’ve been keeping a list of idea sparks on my phone. Now that I’m paying attention, I’m amazed at how many ideas pop into my brain that I would have otherwise lost!
Renee, so glad to hear that! Even if you never get to most of them, you can use it the way Adam Alter does, to give him ideas when he's feeling stuck.