Totally disagree with you here. You need to go deeper. It is about rugged individualism. There is a third deeper layer to interpreting the poem that scholars miss. The first layer is the superficial inspirational layer, as you point out. This is the sickly sweet high school graduation layer.
The second layer is regret disguised as triumph. Our need to confabulate and exaggerate the symbolism of our choices after the fact. Ok, hat tip to the psychologists.
But the third deeper layers says, but wait, everyone agrees that the unconventional path would in fact lead to a richer, more authentic life. Just because the speaker makes that up about his own past choice does not diminish the moral force of taking unconventional paths. And so the tragedy of the speaker's life isn't so much that he later confabulates, but that he regrets putting himself into a meaningless fork where both choices are the same. The convention wasn't in the choice. It was in the meaningless fork. And he could have done a better job hunting down truly unconventional paths.
The third layer introduces a meta-tragedy: not just the speaker's confabulation, but the missed opportunity to escape convention altogether by seeking out forks that aren't illusory or equivalent. The poem is lamenting a life where true divergence—and thus authentic growth—requires more aggressive pursuit of the unconventional. The "yellow wood" becomes a symbol not just of decision points, but of a tame, undifferentiated landscape that the speaker passively accepts.
Like all great American rugged individualists, Frost is a challenging one.
Michael, I love this comment, and want to spend more time thinking about it. This post was very much influenced by Frost's letters, but I really like this, and I'm not totally sure that even Frost had a single interpretation based on some of the wiggle room in those letters. Anyway, really appreciate this thoughtful analysis.
Seems like the poem is a combination of concepts: one about striking out on a different path, and another about how often decisions may not be that 'earthshaking' when it comes to determining reactions to life. The one sure concept is that until we invent Time Travel, the path you choose in career, society, life partners, etc., is often unchangeable as the years go by. The consequences may set you on a path, much like the wagon-wheel ruts of the Westward Expansion in the U.S. The deep ruts show past travelers but also resist any changes in direction.
Fredkin's paradox is closely related to the concept of "regret minimization" in Bandit theory, which falls under Reinforcement Learning. As delta -- the gap between a given choice and the optimal choice -- gets smaller, the decision becomes harder and an agent may end up exploring more with marginally diminishing returns.
Thank you, David, I'm happily working my way through Inside the Box and taking copious notes in an effort to get as much out of it as I can. Along the way, I began to realize how influential Herbert Simon had been on your thinking-then last night I saw where you explicity acknowledged that.
I feel like Simon has been behind every third intellectual rock I've turned over for some years now! So glad to hear you're finding the book worth taking notes on, David.
The poem is open to multiple interpretations, both ironic and sincere. As with much art, what the person experiencing it brings to it is probably comparably important tothe artist's intent.
I agree with that! I think the rugged individualism message and the decision-making message are both absolutely valid, and valuable. I just think one doesn't get enough recognition.
Funny I thought the same thing, even though I interpreted outside of its context, it was still valuable for me at the time. Also got me thinking about how many other ideas I interpret or are interpreted for me outside the actual context
This is glorious stuff. You have combined two great passions of mine. I came across Simon’s philosophy of life a long time ago and have lived my life accordingly ever since. I even managed to convince my wife to at least partially adopt the same strategy.
I both read and write poetry and have often wondered about the meaning Frost wanted us to take from it. It never occurred to me to tie these ideas together. Thank you.
I'm truly surprised I'd never heard this history of the poem. Thank you for sharing!
In other news, I finished the book and LOVED it!! It was so tightly written with such clear intentionality, and it was especially gratifying having read your writings and musings throughout the process. Holly also mentioned it has been on the NYT list for at least the first 2 weeks now, so I hope you're proud :)
Obviously I have a million questions, but it sounds like you're still swamped, so I'll just share this: I like to write a few bullet points on non-fiction books I read generally, but your haiku chapter inspired me to try and write a haiku about each chapter when I finished it. I have to say: it was extremely enjoyable and also very challenging to try and work within the constraints. It made for better learning! If things ever slow down on your end, I'd be curious what your haiku summaries of each chapter would be.
Matt, so great to see you hear again! And I'm so pleased to read this. Particularly because you read so much, and so deeply, including Range. I saw these books as complimentary—my explore/exploit duo, if you will—but I don't think everyone does. So it's especially nice to know that someone who read Range so thoughtfully, and who has followed my thinking aloud in this newsletter, enjoyed this new book. I look forward to your million questions, but perhaps a slight delay would make them even more welcome;) Like this haiku question—you're constantly coming up with questions I've never been asked before, which is kind of amazing given that I've been asked a lot of questions, and a total joy for me. I actually have to stop and think when you ask a question!
I've come to use the poem with my exec students to diagnose the level of stuckiness they feel in their careers. If they can't get past the second stanza before pausing, we're going to have to talk..
Lots to ponder in this post! I recently read somewhere else about what Frost was actually saying in that poem— and it hits so much different now, when you have it in context! I actually like it better. There is no right or wrong choice, better or worse choice, there’s only the choice you make in the moment, with the given information you have. Hindsight is always 20/20, what matters is what we do with what we’ve learned from the decisions we’ve made and how that impacts the decisions in the future.
Absolutely agree. You reminded me of Dan Pink's book on regret, which I love. A main takeaway is that when you something goes wrong you can say "No regrets!" and push it away and not learn. Or you can wallow and ruminate. Or, third path, you can say "What is this feeling teaching me for next time?"
From Warren Buffett: A man I knew decided he wasn't going to marry until he found the perfect woman. After twenty years he finally found her. Unfortunately, she was looking for the perfect man.
Wow that Marukami story is a killer. Re: graduation metaphors. I just attended my daughter's. No mention of Frost but 3 yes 3 separate mentions of the Odyssey by three separate speakers!!
To me, there's no good choice or bad choice. It's just a choice - the important part is committing to it after you make it versus vacillating and being stuck in shoulda woulda coulda mentality. No one can predict how life would turn out if you made a different choice.
Reminds me of a class in grad school on economic development.The Theory of the Second Best.Developers in developing countries were agonizing over getting the resources needed (that weren't readily available) and as a result just stifled any chance for growth.But when they started to accept the next best they saw opportunities to grow.
What a fantastic way to put it. This reminds me of a talk I saw about frugal innovation in the developing world by Manu Prakash, creator of the $1 microscope. I love that phrase, "Theory of the Second Best."
Thank you for this thoughtful post. I think there is a lot of truth to this claim about the downside of abundant options, but the argument seems sound only when all of those options are roughly equivalent in terms of their value. If I’m in a library or a bookstore and I am looking for something to read, I want to have enough diversity in my options to be able to read something of value to me. I guess I want the provider to give me lots of options so that I don’t have to settle.
Mark, astute comment and I completely agree. Bookstores are where I go to find interests I didn't know I had, and I want to be like a chimp swinging from intellectual branch to branch. I'm more thinking about this in terms of the feeling I get when I'm too online—that I'm not optimizing my life. But your point is very well taken.
Totally disagree with you here. You need to go deeper. It is about rugged individualism. There is a third deeper layer to interpreting the poem that scholars miss. The first layer is the superficial inspirational layer, as you point out. This is the sickly sweet high school graduation layer.
The second layer is regret disguised as triumph. Our need to confabulate and exaggerate the symbolism of our choices after the fact. Ok, hat tip to the psychologists.
But the third deeper layers says, but wait, everyone agrees that the unconventional path would in fact lead to a richer, more authentic life. Just because the speaker makes that up about his own past choice does not diminish the moral force of taking unconventional paths. And so the tragedy of the speaker's life isn't so much that he later confabulates, but that he regrets putting himself into a meaningless fork where both choices are the same. The convention wasn't in the choice. It was in the meaningless fork. And he could have done a better job hunting down truly unconventional paths.
The third layer introduces a meta-tragedy: not just the speaker's confabulation, but the missed opportunity to escape convention altogether by seeking out forks that aren't illusory or equivalent. The poem is lamenting a life where true divergence—and thus authentic growth—requires more aggressive pursuit of the unconventional. The "yellow wood" becomes a symbol not just of decision points, but of a tame, undifferentiated landscape that the speaker passively accepts.
Like all great American rugged individualists, Frost is a challenging one.
Michael, I love this comment, and want to spend more time thinking about it. This post was very much influenced by Frost's letters, but I really like this, and I'm not totally sure that even Frost had a single interpretation based on some of the wiggle room in those letters. Anyway, really appreciate this thoughtful analysis.
As someone who writes poetry, I have a feeling that Frost would absolutely love this debate.
Haha, so glad to hear that Cathy!
Seems like the poem is a combination of concepts: one about striking out on a different path, and another about how often decisions may not be that 'earthshaking' when it comes to determining reactions to life. The one sure concept is that until we invent Time Travel, the path you choose in career, society, life partners, etc., is often unchangeable as the years go by. The consequences may set you on a path, much like the wagon-wheel ruts of the Westward Expansion in the U.S. The deep ruts show past travelers but also resist any changes in direction.
Fredkin's paradox is closely related to the concept of "regret minimization" in Bandit theory, which falls under Reinforcement Learning. As delta -- the gap between a given choice and the optimal choice -- gets smaller, the decision becomes harder and an agent may end up exploring more with marginally diminishing returns.
I wish I would've known to use this in the post!
Thank you, David, I'm happily working my way through Inside the Box and taking copious notes in an effort to get as much out of it as I can. Along the way, I began to realize how influential Herbert Simon had been on your thinking-then last night I saw where you explicity acknowledged that.
I feel like Simon has been behind every third intellectual rock I've turned over for some years now! So glad to hear you're finding the book worth taking notes on, David.
The poem is open to multiple interpretations, both ironic and sincere. As with much art, what the person experiencing it brings to it is probably comparably important tothe artist's intent.
I agree with that! I think the rugged individualism message and the decision-making message are both absolutely valid, and valuable. I just think one doesn't get enough recognition.
I can't believe I've thought about this quote outside of its actual context all of my life
I think both interpretations are valid! But the one that Frost intended is almost entirely ignored, which is why I thought it was worth highlighting.
Funny I thought the same thing, even though I interpreted outside of its context, it was still valuable for me at the time. Also got me thinking about how many other ideas I interpret or are interpreted for me outside the actual context
This is glorious stuff. You have combined two great passions of mine. I came across Simon’s philosophy of life a long time ago and have lived my life accordingly ever since. I even managed to convince my wife to at least partially adopt the same strategy.
I both read and write poetry and have often wondered about the meaning Frost wanted us to take from it. It never occurred to me to tie these ideas together. Thank you.
What a wonderful comment. Just wanted to say thank for leaving it here, Keith.
I'm truly surprised I'd never heard this history of the poem. Thank you for sharing!
In other news, I finished the book and LOVED it!! It was so tightly written with such clear intentionality, and it was especially gratifying having read your writings and musings throughout the process. Holly also mentioned it has been on the NYT list for at least the first 2 weeks now, so I hope you're proud :)
Obviously I have a million questions, but it sounds like you're still swamped, so I'll just share this: I like to write a few bullet points on non-fiction books I read generally, but your haiku chapter inspired me to try and write a haiku about each chapter when I finished it. I have to say: it was extremely enjoyable and also very challenging to try and work within the constraints. It made for better learning! If things ever slow down on your end, I'd be curious what your haiku summaries of each chapter would be.
Matt, so great to see you hear again! And I'm so pleased to read this. Particularly because you read so much, and so deeply, including Range. I saw these books as complimentary—my explore/exploit duo, if you will—but I don't think everyone does. So it's especially nice to know that someone who read Range so thoughtfully, and who has followed my thinking aloud in this newsletter, enjoyed this new book. I look forward to your million questions, but perhaps a slight delay would make them even more welcome;) Like this haiku question—you're constantly coming up with questions I've never been asked before, which is kind of amazing given that I've been asked a lot of questions, and a total joy for me. I actually have to stop and think when you ask a question!
Thank you, David!! I'll be patient. I hope the rest of this launch process goes well!
Terrific insights David.
I've come to use the poem with my exec students to diagnose the level of stuckiness they feel in their careers. If they can't get past the second stanza before pausing, we're going to have to talk..
Haha...that is amazing. I'd love to hear more detail about a case, though don't want to put you on the spot;)
It amazes me such a famous poem can be so misunderstood.
Frost keeps changing shape every time people quote him.
Reading his letters, I think he probably would've approved of that, even though he seemed annoyed by some of the use of this particular poem.
Lots to ponder in this post! I recently read somewhere else about what Frost was actually saying in that poem— and it hits so much different now, when you have it in context! I actually like it better. There is no right or wrong choice, better or worse choice, there’s only the choice you make in the moment, with the given information you have. Hindsight is always 20/20, what matters is what we do with what we’ve learned from the decisions we’ve made and how that impacts the decisions in the future.
Absolutely agree. You reminded me of Dan Pink's book on regret, which I love. A main takeaway is that when you something goes wrong you can say "No regrets!" and push it away and not learn. Or you can wallow and ruminate. Or, third path, you can say "What is this feeling teaching me for next time?"
From Warren Buffett: A man I knew decided he wasn't going to marry until he found the perfect woman. After twenty years he finally found her. Unfortunately, she was looking for the perfect man.
Oh my gosh. Too perfect. Thanks so much for sharing this Mike. I definitely would have included it had I known.
Wow that Marukami story is a killer. Re: graduation metaphors. I just attended my daughter's. No mention of Frost but 3 yes 3 separate mentions of the Odyssey by three separate speakers!!
Wut?! Three mentions of the Odyssey! Is this because the not-yet-out movie has breathed new life into it? What was the substance of the mentions?
To me, there's no good choice or bad choice. It's just a choice - the important part is committing to it after you make it versus vacillating and being stuck in shoulda woulda coulda mentality. No one can predict how life would turn out if you made a different choice.
Reminds me a bit of the saying (Ellen Langer, maybe?): Don't make the right decision, make the decision right.
Reminds me of a class in grad school on economic development.The Theory of the Second Best.Developers in developing countries were agonizing over getting the resources needed (that weren't readily available) and as a result just stifled any chance for growth.But when they started to accept the next best they saw opportunities to grow.
What a fantastic way to put it. This reminds me of a talk I saw about frugal innovation in the developing world by Manu Prakash, creator of the $1 microscope. I love that phrase, "Theory of the Second Best."
Thank you for this thoughtful post. I think there is a lot of truth to this claim about the downside of abundant options, but the argument seems sound only when all of those options are roughly equivalent in terms of their value. If I’m in a library or a bookstore and I am looking for something to read, I want to have enough diversity in my options to be able to read something of value to me. I guess I want the provider to give me lots of options so that I don’t have to settle.
Mark, astute comment and I completely agree. Bookstores are where I go to find interests I didn't know I had, and I want to be like a chimp swinging from intellectual branch to branch. I'm more thinking about this in terms of the feeling I get when I'm too online—that I'm not optimizing my life. But your point is very well taken.